Curse

PureEvilYak · Jun 17, 2007, 09:34 PM // 21:34

So, I have two suggestions in 1 post. Added value, right?

My first is on Cartography. More specifically, Tyrian Cartography. Even more specifically, on the subject of those areas no-longer accessable.
Now, I know there is leeway. But I'm not entirely sure whether it is enough to make up for every one of the old arenas. My title track is at 96%, but I don;t want to waste my time on something that isn't possible.
And even if it IS possible, I don't really think it is fair. Way of the world, I guess, I mean, some people have a lot easier job of getting the 100%. I'm guessing, overall, you can get, maybe 1-2% from those areas (which is a LOT at the upper levels, those who have got there will know). This means that they have a lot less work to do. So my suggestion (or plaintive demand, really) is that those areas are made accessable again. Not as arenas, that would just confuse things. Maybe just as museums, a source of nostalgia for the wizened beta testers.

[EDIT: My Alliegance (thats not a typo, I just can't spell) ideas have been edited out. A lot of other people have brought up better ideas, and there were already too many on this theme when I first posted.]

Anyway, thats my tuppence. I hope that these were insightful and not pointless.

MithranArkanere · Jun 17, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I got Elonian in three days, and about 1.5% of the map was still uncovered.

I got Canthan in nine days. I had to persuade my entire alliane to go to the Quarry and 'garrison' the place... we were lucky, no one were there, so 16 of us entered there and explored, without fights.

I got Tyrian in three weeks, and not a single spot in the map was left, but the arenas, which you can't get in anymore. I had to hug walls over an over, until I found a tiny spot you can als a bit southerns and... gn.... 0.1% more...
To get Tyrian you HAVE to make tricks that take you to weird areas.

So...

1. Make ALL Mission areas also explorable(including challenges and competitive), missions are to focus in the mission, no one needs someone hugging the wals inside Aspenwood in the middle of the battle. It would be a good idea to put bosses with elites you can find only in those missions. Capturing inside a mission should not be done (it would be a good idea to deactivate signets inside missions, like shrines are, once all the elites an be captured elsewhere).
2. Turn arenas into challenges, to use the empty space there and let people explore.
3. Increase the leeway. That would be the easiest and fastest option

PureEvilYak · Jun 18, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Yes, challenge missions could work, I suppose. I mean, in Cantha and Elona all the mission areas are explorable, as you say (well, most, to my knowledge). I just think some kind of equality for the titles should be reached.

As for the first point I made, ignore it. A lot of the other threads have better ideas for this. In fact, I believe that I shall edit it out.

Voltar · Jun 22, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

that is kinda harsh if playing quarry is required for canthan...i'd say waiting for "happy dragon day" or whatever 4th of july is called in shing jea would go way quicker than waiting for people to show up in quarry. i'm not sure what in tyria isn't accessable anymore (maybe that old guildhall island?)

getting both kurzick and luxon areas is tedious but certainly not unreasonable. what areas aren't accessable anymore? and does grenth's footprint make up for it? (i forgot if sf came out before or after the cartography title)

i think there's even methods of getting to "unintended for players" areas with necrotic traversal and stuff

Mylon · Jun 22, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

I think the cartography title is such a bore. It might be easier now with vanquishing, but as the rewards for vanquishing suck, I'm not holding my breath.

the_jos · Jun 22, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

On the subject of Tyrian exploration:

Check the first maps in http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10160387

Those are 100%, without the old arenas.
When you look hard you can even see the still covered area in Lornar's on the thumbnail.

Div · Jun 22, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureEvilYak

Yes, challenge missions could work, I suppose. I mean, in Cantha and Elona all the mission areas are explorable, as you say (well, most, to my knowledge). I just think some kind of equality for the titles should be reached.

As for the first point I made, ignore it. A lot of the other threads have better ideas for this. In fact, I believe that I shall edit it out.

You can't access the starting place in elona if you're not an elonian character, so that shaves off a little bit. The Cantha starting area can be explored during special events, but if you just recently made another character you won't be able to explore it.

I don't necessarily think there should be "equality" for the titles persay. This is because Tyria is already a bigger map, so of course it should take much longer to explore. Plus, there's no way for equality, as there are 50+ zones to vanquish in Tyria and only 30-some for Cantha/Elona.

freekedoutfish · Jun 22, 2007, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureEvilYak

So, I have two suggestions in 1 post. Added value, right?

My first is on Cartography. More specifically, Tyrian Cartography. Even more specifically, on the subject of those areas no-longer accessable.
Now, I know there is leeway. But I'm not entirely sure whether it is enough to make up for every one of the old arenas. My title track is at 96%, but I don;t want to waste my time on something that isn't possible.
And even if it IS possible, I don't really think it is fair. Way of the world, I guess, I mean, some people have a lot easier job of getting the 100%. I'm guessing, overall, you can get, maybe 1-2% from those areas (which is a LOT at the upper levels, those who have got there will know). This means that they have a lot less work to do. So my suggestion (or plaintive demand, really) is that those areas are made accessable again. Not as arenas, that would just confuse things. Maybe just as museums, a source of nostalgia for the wizened beta testers.

[EDIT: My Alliegance (thats not a typo, I just can't spell) ideas have been edited out. A lot of other people have brought up better ideas, and there were already too many on this theme when I first posted.]

Anyway, thats my tuppence. I hope that these were insightful and not pointless.

Oh boohoo, you cant be bothered to get the last few % of exploration in Tyria because its tooo hard! Awww!!! Big deal!

Myself and countless others have legendary cartographer and guess what?

It was hard work! Get used to it!

But let me understand you....

...you want to make the easily accessed areas open again, because you cant be bothered to explore the hard to reach areas?

Em.... nope!!! I dont even think you deserve to get 100% with your attitude towards exploring!

It really annoys me when people basically winge because they cant get that last few %s, despite the 1000s of other players who have managed it. Im an elemental, so I dont exactly have an advantage when exploring like a warrior, ranger, monk or necro! Yet I managed it!

Just grow up and put the effort in!

You obviously heard the old rumour "Exploring is easy" and decided to use it, to get 3 full titles! Then reality hits and its actually hard and now you complain.

Hoyt · Jun 22, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Geeeesh, Freeeked, I thought the British were the polite ones and the French were the rude ones.... :P

Pureevilyak: Though I feel your pain, brother, the fact that you have to use tricks and what not to get the title for Tyria is what makes it the most satisfying of all the cartographer titles...seriously. Trust me, once you get that last 0.01%, it'll just make you giggle like a schoolgirl. Now granted, you'll be out in the middle of nowhere and when you "Woot!" nobody will hear you, but it'll still make your rubbery parts tingle.

Mistress Mindbender · Jun 22, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

/signed

They could easily re-incorperate them into pve.

Even with the arenas anybody exploring tyria is going to have to scrape, I doubt that anyone will feel like they have cheated themselves by getting a few free %. Ive mapped tyria and I would never do it again.... its not worth it.

freekedoutfish · Jun 22, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoyt

Geeeesh, Freeeked, I thought the British were the polite ones and the French were the rude ones.... :P

Pureevilyak: Though I feel your pain, brother, the fact that you have to use tricks and what not to get the title for Tyria is what makes it the most satisfying of all the cartographer titles...seriously. Trust me, once you get that last 0.01%, it'll just make you giggle like a schoolgirl. Now granted, you'll be out in the middle of nowhere and when you "Woot!" nobody will hear you, but it'll still make your rubbery parts tingle.

Yeah, this whole "make exploration easier" thing touches a nerve with me somewhat! The countless 100s of grandmasters and the dozens lf legendary cartographers are evidence that it can be done!

There is no need to change something that doesnt need changed!

Exploration can be done, and the evidence exists!

If no one at all had 100% in the 2 years the game had existed and it was proven to be "impossible" as the OP said, then I would agree to changes. But you can go to any capital city and be quaranteed to see a grandmaster of something.

Its like asking to make speaking easier by shortening words because you cant be bothered to say such long ones. But how come everyone else can manage?

Dougal Kronik · Jun 22, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Not necessary.

You don't need any tricks, you don't need any arenas, and you don't need any other crutches to get Tyrian GMC.

Just get out there and explore, edge, and get some help for areas like Dunes.

Quest_techie · Jun 22, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I have a fair few running builds for my ele, so I'd even argue that they don't even have too many disadvantages

and ritualists just take patience, lots, and lots of patience...

mesmers probably have it hardest of everyone for explorer

the_jos · Jun 22, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest_techie

mesmers probably have it hardest of everyone for explorer

Nah...

Hoyt · Jun 22, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Yeah, this whole "make exploration easier" thing touches a nerve with me somewhat! The countless 100s of grandmasters and the dozens lf legendary cartographers are evidence that it can be done!

There is no need to change something that doesnt need changed!

Oh, I am not saying that I don't agree with you 100%, Freeked. I'd cry bloody murder if they changed it now. I've worked like a...well, a freek to get my titles & to lessen the task at this point would be a slap in the face.

the_jos · Jun 23, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17

There is no need to make exploration easier.
All maps have a lot of room for error.
I'm one of the map-comparers on the Tyrian maps, so I know how much room there is left (take a peek at the maps at the link in #6 and you can see how much there is).
People that have the old arenas have a slight advantage, but it's not that much.
The necrotic tricks at Dunes and Frost Gate do help (I still have to try Wilds), but you don't need them for the title.

The main problem first time cartographers face is that they start serious exploration too late. Starting too late means walking all areas over again to get tiny pieces. And for the final 1%, you are visiting a lot of places. I made this mistake on my ranger.
Second, you need a plan. Enter an area and know you can finish it. If not, don't explore yet.
Learn the size of the 'exploration bubble'.
The easiest way is to start hugging a wall and keep following it till you're back at the starting point. Then you cross the area when it was too large for your 'exploration bubble'.
That and a lot of time is all you need for GMC

PureEvilYak · Jun 23, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Just grow up and put the effort in!

You obviously heard the old rumour "Exploring is easy" and decided to use it, to get 3 full titles! Then reality hits and its actually hard and now you complain.

I never heard that exploring was easy, but yes, you have made me think a bit. My main inspiration for writing this was that I wasn't entirely sure whether it was even possible to get Tyrian Cartographer without those areas. Yes, I knew there was leeway, but as those old areas seem quite large, I didn't know whether it was possible.

The_Jos, thankyou for the maps, I found an extra 1% after looking at them and seeing a huge area I hadn't explored before. Now I know that it is possible, I look forward to getting the last 3%.

EDIT: The hard way. You've made me remember why I satrted doing this, which was for bragging rights. And whats the point of bragging rights if just ANYONE can have them?

CyberMesh0 · Jun 23, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Because few have them, or are willing to drudge across all three continents (multiple times) to get them. There are more now, but many of those are seasoned players.